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Post by shadow on Jan 22, 2012 6:41:37 GMT -5
Keitaro? Wax? CYBERUS? Thoughts?
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Post by wax on Jan 28, 2012 6:47:16 GMT -5
Tech trees make the thing more complicated than it needs to be... Besides, the more 'tree branches' there are, the more risk we have to get really unbalanced thing. Though, I'm better leaving the basic devising of the tree to you, then offering my opinion and help perfeccting it. Still here, even if I sure don't look so.
That aside, lowering the unit costs is basically OK (in every hack of mine, I did that).
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Post by shadow on Jan 28, 2012 9:21:58 GMT -5
I intend to make it fairly simplified, if only to stop it becoming unbalanced. Oh, and good to see you 'round again, Wax! Tree will POSSIBLY, if I'm lucky, be finished by early Feb. Probably about a Week if I can find the time. Mind you, I'm only talking first draft.
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Post by wax on Jan 28, 2012 10:28:26 GMT -5
Okay, good to see this is coming out to be something visible pretty soon. Way to go Shadow.
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Post by Jinn on Jan 30, 2012 8:45:44 GMT -5
This is a good idea. If the tree is completely unbalanced and there’s no feasible way it will work we can drop the thing initially and no harm done. If it looks like it will work, than well... well we’ll have somewhere to go then wont we.
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Post by wax on Jan 31, 2012 11:40:12 GMT -5
Yeah, that better be a good way. If the original tech tree isn't balanced anyway, I can always try and see why. I have several tries at hacking DoR behind me, so I think I have some... um, "battle experience". Anyway, no tech tree out yet, so no comment. For now.
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Post by shadow on Feb 10, 2012 6:36:39 GMT -5
Alright, I've made one, assuming that each team has access to the aforementioned units that Jinn offered.
However, after looking at it, I can't work out how to.. keep it neat or understandable. Code doesn't work so well with it.
How to make
/ \ look neat is beyond me.
EDIT: Look neater with names attached, that is. For instance, how do you get the names in the center? I'll throw the mess of a tech tree out in a bit, I guess, but it does need some.. neatening work.
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Post by shadow on Feb 10, 2012 6:59:26 GMT -5
Base Tech:
Heavy Machinery (Initiator for Tank Tech Line. Generic small +5 boost to something?)
Cohesive Motion (Initiator for infantry tech line. Generic small boost, not specified.)
Slewing Waters (Sea tech line. Generic Boost.)
Updated Com Lines (Com Towers createable. Fourth odd line I came up with.)
Advanced Tech:
Firepower Advanced (Mdm Tanks)(Heavy Machinery.)
Machine Movement (Optional bonus to lowering terrain movement value?) (Heavy Machinery, Slewing Waters)
Forcing Tactics (Artilleryey Infantry.)(Cohesive Motion)
Oceanography (Not sure, precurser to bigger ships.)(Slewing Waters, Updated Com Lines)
Open Docking (That weak landing boat thing.)(Slewing Waters)
Linked Defenses (Bulwarks of some kind)(Updated Com Lines)
Low Flying (Copters of all kinds.)(Machine Movement, Linked Defenses)
Updated Communications (Precurser)(Linked Defenses, Oceanography)
Locking Systems (Rockets)(Firepower Advanced, Machine Movement, Forcing Tactics)
Occupational Tactics (Increase Capture Rate specific infantry)(Forcing Tactics, Updated Communications.)
Deep Sea Motion (Subs)(Updated Communications, Firepower Advanced)
Sea Control (Battleships)(Updated Communications, Locking Systems)
Shatter Assault (Neolike)(Occupational Tactics, Locking Systems, Updated Communications)
As neat as I can make it, and of course, it's only the first draft. I've got a whole lot of other ideas floating around, and I admit I would've put more into the tree, probably elongating it, if it wasn't for RL. :/
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Post by Jinn on Feb 12, 2012 2:20:56 GMT -5
It's not bad; at the very least it’s a good place to start. Good work either way Shadow.
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Post by wax on Feb 13, 2012 7:42:40 GMT -5
Good work Shadow. The tree has no structure yet, but it's up to everyone to build it.
Though, it's better to quantify the boosts so let me say what I'd think is a refined tech tree.
Base techs:
- Heavy Machinery: Required: - Boosts: +5% firepower to tanks Levels: 4
- Commando Training (renamed "Cohesive Motion") Required: - Boosts: +10% firepower to infantry Levels: 2
- Slewing Waters Required: - Boosts: +10% firepower to sea units Levels: 5
- Updated Com Lines Required: - Boosts: No Levels: 1 Allows to build com towers.
Advanced Tech:
- Explosive Cannons (renamed "Firepower Advanced") Required: Heavy Machinery lv2 Boosts: +10% firepower to md tanks and above Levels: 3
- Machine Movement Required: Heavy Machinery lv1 Boosts: Lowers movement penalties for heavy treaded units to 1. Levels: 1
- Positional Tactics (renamed "Forcing Tactics") Required: Heavy Machinery lv1, Commando Training lv1 Boosts: Artillery range boosted by 1. Infantry defense boosted by 5%. Levels: 1
- Oceanography Required: Slewing Waters lv1, Updated Com Lines Boosts: Sea units have no movement penalty. Levels: 1 Allows to build bigger ships.
- Open Docking Required: Slewing Waters lv1, Commando Training lv1 Boosts: Sea transport movement upped by 1. Levels: 1
- Linked Defenses Required: Updated Com Lines Boosts: Com towers also boost defense by 5%. Levels: 2
- Low Flying Required: Machine Movement, Linked Defenses (I still don't get why...) Boosts: Copter defense is upped by 10%. Levels: 2
- Upgraded Com Network (renamed "Updated Communications") Required: Updated Com Lines, Linked Defenses Boosts: Com Tower boosts 5% more offense. Levels: 2
- Locking Systems Required: Explosive Cannons, Machine Movement, Positional Tactics Boosts: Rocket units firepower up by 10%. Levels: 3
- Occupational Tactics Required: Commando Training lv2, Positional Tactics, Updated Com Lines Boosts: Capture rate up by 20%. Levels: 3
- Deep Sea Motion Required: Explosive Cannons, Upgraded Com Network Boosts: Submarine movement boosted by 1. Levels: 1
- Sea Control Required: Upgraded Com Network, Locking Systems Boosts: - Levels: 1 Allows to build Battleships
- Shatter Assault Required: Occupational Tactics level 2, Locking Systems lv2, Upgraded Com Network Boosts: Upgrades firepower of md tanks (and above), battleships, and bombers. Levels: 1 Allows to build Neotanks (Neolike)(Occupational Tactics, Locking Systems, Updated Communications)
Hope it's fine.
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Post by shadow on Feb 13, 2012 18:01:14 GMT -5
... I like the levels. That's a neat idea.(Now why didn't I think of that....)
Looking alright, with the 'Linked Defenses' being necessary for 'Low Flying', it was half because I wanted to add more difficulty to researching it, and because communications is usually associated with aircraft.
Tired currently, I'll do a little work on the upgraded tree when I'm not so drained...
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Post by keitar0hirochi on Feb 18, 2012 9:01:13 GMT -5
Okay, first tech trees make everything more complicated. Too complicated imo. Then the Advanced tech have some problems: 1- MdTanks and above? What's "above"? 2- The mere existence of Positional Tactics is a call to the boring meatshielding strategy. Artillery and infantry should NOT be related in the same upgrade. 3- How can flying low up the defense of Copters? It's ridiculous, and irl causes the exact opposite of it: it's easier to attack grounded units, but you're easier to attack. 4- Most of the last upgrades require much, but give almost nothing.
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Post by CYBERUS on Feb 19, 2012 0:19:38 GMT -5
Okay then, I'm sorry for not providing any feedback earlier. I had been keeping an eye on it, but never got around to posting. And for that, I apologize.
Right now, I have no feedback that keitar0 hasn't already stated, except for I do not completely believe that Tech trees are too complicated, but maybe we should tone it down a little bit.
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Post by wax on Feb 19, 2012 5:55:00 GMT -5
It's true that toning down the tech tree's size wouldn't really hurt. What about we do that in "tiers", like in Warcraft 3.
Example:
- Tier 1: Already unlocked. Allows to build Infantry, Mech, Recon, Tank, Anti-Air, APC, Artillery, T Copters, Landers (Insert Tier 1 research possibilities)
- Tier 2: Costs (insert number of $ here) Allows to build B Copters, Fighters, Md Tanks, Rockets, Cruisers and Subs (Insert Tier 2 research possibilities)
- Tier 3: Requires something, costs (insert number of $ here) Allows to build Battleships, Neotanks and Bombers (Insert Tier 3 research possibilities)
What do you think of that? It would keep stuff simple.
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Post by shadow on Feb 20, 2012 23:30:28 GMT -5
Humm. Seems fine to me.
Then we could have such things as researches which copy the bonuses that you can only use 5? of at a time in Dual Strike.
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